The Big Picture
Welcome to a new episode of Collider Ladies Night with
Baby Reindeer
star Jessica Gunning.
During her conversation with Collider’s Perri Nemiroff, Gunning revisits auditioning for the role of Martha, discusses her relationship with Donny, and shares her thoughts on the show’s ending.
Gunning also reacts to the very well-earned Emmy season buzz she’s getting.
We talk about the experience of “breaking out” in Hollywood a lot on Collider Ladies Night. There are many wonderful ways to have that moment in film and television, but Jessica Gunning has seen her star soar in an especially exciting way over the last month courtesy of the popularity of Netflix’s Baby Reindeer.
Based on his own personal experience which he adapted into an award-winning Edinburgh Fringe one-man play, the Richard Gadd-created series stars Gunning as Martha, Donny Dunn’s (Gadd) stalker. What Donny thinks is just a simple act of kindness, offering Martha a free cup of tea on a tough day, winds up being a life-changing exchange as she wedges her way into just about every part of his life. Not only does the relationship turn Donny’s day-to-day on its head, but the experience also challenges him to address some long-buried trauma.
Baby Reindeer isn’t some massive production with a significant monthslong promotional campaign behind it. It’s something that caught on in a big way, seemingly out of the blue, simply because it’s an exquisitely crafted and incredibly well-acted piece. While Gunning isn’t new to the industry by any means, the success of Baby Reindeer has instantly turned her into a highly recognizable name, one earning a good deal of Emmy buzz at the moment, and it’s inspiring many to check out her other credits, films like 2014’s Pride and the ongoing Prime Video series, The Outlaws.
In celebration of this extremely well-deserved game-changing moment, I welcomed Gunning to Collider Ladies Night to revisit her road to Baby Reindeer, to break down the nuances of Martha, and to discuss what it’s like becoming a bonafide Emmy contender.
How a “Fantasy Sandwich” Inspired Gunning to Become an Actor
Image via Netflix
Gunning noted, “All my family is very funny,” so it’ll likely come as no surprise to learn she’s always been drawn to comedy. She further specified, “Robin Williams was one of my favorite actors to watch. I was obsessed with him when I was little.”
How’d that obsession with the legendary Robin Williams turn into an itch to act herself? She credits that to a drama school exercise called a “fantasy sandwich.” She explained:
“I think my earliest memory was making people laugh, I think. That’s when I kind of got the buzz. We did a class which was called a ‘[fantasy] sandwich,’ so
it was like a little sketch idea almost, with improv, where you’d start something in normal life, you’d go into the [fantasy], and then you go back to normal life
. The thing that I chose to do was a little girl who couldn’t read and then, in her fantasy, she was a Shakespearean actress and then went back to reality. For some reason, everyone cracked up, and then I got the bug from that moment on, really.”
Next on Gunning’s journey honing her craft was Rose Bruford College in London where she earned a degree in acting. One particularly memorable lesson learned in that program? One involving a squeaky door. “It was a teacher that was explaining how, in a scene he watched in a theater production, a guy was creeping out of a room and the set door squeaked, but he didn’t react to it, because obviously it wasn’t in the play.” She continued, “It kind of ruined the moment because he didn’t react in the moment to the squeaky door.” The takeaway? “Try and be as in the moment as possible, and if something happens that’s wrong, react to that.”
Gunning even got the chance to see a squeaky door moment unfold right before her eyes courtesy of House of the Dragon star Eve Best.
“I went to see a play of
Hedda Gabler
with an amazing actress called Eve Best. I saw it twice, and on the first night I saw it,
she was wearing this beaded necklace, and she made a move and the beads went everywhere, and she used this speech [and], one by one, she put the beads into this glass jar
. I was like, ‘That bit was amazing!’ And then I saw it again and it didn’t happen, so she’d just done it in the moment because her necklace had broken. So I was like, ‘That is classic squeaky door,’ because she just went with it.”
Jessica Gunning Worked in the Writers’ Room on ‘The Outlaws’ Season 3
Image via Prime Video
One adds tools to their acting toolkit, so to speak, every step of the way, but Gunning got the opportunity to add an especially invaluable one just recently while working on Season 3 of The Outlaws, the Elgin James and Stephen Merchant-created crime thriller comedy series.
“I do a TV show called
The Outlaws
, which is Stephen Merchant’s series, and I think that really taught me how to also think of the writing side of things, and more structurally.
I was lucky enough to be in the writers’ room for the third series
of that, so that was kind of bridging from just acting over into the behind-the-scenes a little bit more.
It made me really appreciate the skill that goes into telling those stories, how much work goes in before actors even come to set
, which also gives a whole new meaning when an actor arrives on day one and says, ‘My character would never say that.’ [Laughs] You think, ‘Well, for six months, there’s people who’ve been writing that character, and I think that they would!’ So it’s always really interesting to kind of delve behind the scenes a little bit more, which I’ve been really lucky to do with
The Outlaws
.”
Gunning Worked with an Academy Award Winner on Her ‘Baby Reindeer’ Audition
When the focus of our conversation shifted to Baby Reindeer, naturally, we began with the audition process. Gunning’s been active in the industry for quite some time now. Odds are, she’s participated in many auditions. But, the Baby Reindeer was different. Usually, Gunning’s mentality is, “If this is meant to be, it’s meant to be. I’ll go in, do the audition, what will be, will be.” In this case, however, Gunning read all the episodes and immediately had a strong response to the character of Martha. “I was just like, ‘I just know how to play her.’”
Gunning was ready to do whatever it took to score the role, and that wound up including an assist from a good friend who also happens to be an Academy Award-winning make-up artist.
“I suppose we had about four auditions, because obviously the chemistry between me and Richard would have been really important, so I think they wanted to kind of double check that quite a lot of the time. Then
I’d heard on the grapevine that the age difference was potentially a question mark
, so I actually got a friend of mine who is a makeup designer called Nadia Stacey, who has now won an Oscar for
Poor Things
. She’s amazing. She’s a good friend of mine, and she was like,
‘Why don’t I put a wig on you, and then you go and tape yourself, and you say, look?’
[Laughs] So we did. She was amazing. I’ve never done anything like that for a part before, but yeah, she wigged me up and did another tape to send over to Richard and everyone, and Weronika [Tofilska], the director, and said, ‘Look, maybe like this? Try and imagine me here.’ So all in all, I think I probably, over the space of about four months, met for the part about five times.”
Gunning felt she had great clarity on how to play Martha in the audition stage, and Dunn very much agreed, telling her, “You captured the dynamic I wanted.” While on set, Gunning got even more affirmation that her take on Martha was spot-on courtesy of a particular reaction from the show’s crew. She recalled:
“
There was a moment when some of the crew were coming over, and they were like, ‘Oh, we kind of want them to get together.’
[Laughs] And I thought, that’s the kind of clever thing about this story is that, in a strange way, you’re also kind of rooting for them in moments.’ And I think that’s when I thought, ‘Oh, okay, we might have something special here because the crew are even up and down.’ And when you’re working on a job like that with everyone involved and invested, I think that you kind of think, ‘Okay, yeah. We might have something pretty special here.’”
What If Donny Never Offered Martha That Tea?
Image via Netflix
Calling Baby Reindeer “something pretty special” is accurate, but feels like an understatement. The series is critically acclaimed, has become a true pop culture phenomenon and now, many are expecting it to be an Emmy season juggernaut. What is it about Baby Reindeer that caused it to catch on in such a big way? There’s a multitude of answers to that question, but a personal favorite is how deftly it explores human complexities, and what compels us to make certain choices during trying times.
For example, there’s no simple yes or no answer to the question; is Martha a liar? It’s quite undeniable she’s got a habit of embellishing facts throughout the series, but via Gunning’s performance, it becomes clearer and clearer that just about everything Martha says and does comes from a place of truth — her truth.
“Somebody once asked about her lying and I thought, ‘That’s such an interesting word because I never would have thought of it like that.’ I don’t think it’s an intentional thing. And like you say, there’s this backstory that she’s almost invented, but in another life that could be very true. She’s not too far away from that. And as we see, he sees her law degree on the fridge. She genuinely did train in law. And so there’s almost like a sense of maybe an un-lived life in her.
She’s gone through life maybe overlooked and slightly invisible, so the narrative she’s created is the life she thinks maybe she should have had or deserved to have.
So it’s not necessarily lying. It’s almost like an inflated version of what she feels like she’s owed, maybe.”
Related ‘Baby Reindeer’ Review: A Dark Masterpiece That Will Leave You in Shambles This autobiographical miniseries is flawless, even if it’s a difficult story to tell.
Gunning went on to explain that Donny has a touch of that himself.
“In a way, Donny has that, too, with his ambitions to be a comedian. He’s like, ‘I thought this was gonna be better. I thought this was gonna be a bigger thing,’ which is why
when they’re in the cafe together, she’s like, ‘You’re living your dream. Look at me, I’m living mine.’ In a way, that’s the truth to that.
So I don’t actually think she’s
intentionally
deceitful ever, really. I suppose the only bit is she denies maybe contacting the family in the bit where he asks her to write an email. I suppose that slightly is a lie. But I suppose, again, in her mind, there will be a logic to that, too. It wouldn’t be so far-fetched that she’s just doing it for the sake of lying. There’d be a reason to it in her brain.”
Did Jessica Gunning Ever Figure Out Why Martha Was the Way She Was?
Roughly midway through Baby Reindeer Episode 7, just before Martha’s hearing, Donny reflects and notes he “devoted his life to unpacking the mystery of Martha, why she was the way that she was. I’m not sure I ever got close to finding the answer.” As the person playing Martha in the show, does Gunning think she got close to finding that answer?
“No, I don’t think I did. I think similarly to Richard, he managed to kind of create this amazing character and paint a person so full that I don’t think I’ve ever read a character as nuanced and as detailed as that before. But again, I go back to that final voicemail. This little baby reindeer toy was the thing she held if her parents fought, and that kind of thing, and I suppose filling in gaps and making my own backstory for her, that’s where I would always go back to.
The fact that he was her safety in a way, she really needed him, and she felt like he kind of protected her like the reindeer did.
”
Given Martha is extremely drawn to Donny and he serves as a source of safety for her, is she able to recognize what she’s put him through? When she’s sentenced to nine-months in prison, is there any remorse, or is it merely closing the door on this chapter and repeating the same cycle again? Here’s Gunning’s take on Martha’s final scene of the show:
“I think that’s why it’s a really interesting scene in the courtroom because there’s another world in which she pleads not guilty.
I think her pleading guilty is Martha’s way of kind of saying sorry
, in a way. I think she realizes the distress that might have been caused. But again, none of it would have been hugely intentional. But I think that’s why it was really moving acting that bit because I suppose in the moment before I said ‘guilty,’ I was like, ‘Whoa, that’s such a strong admission.’ Especially somebody who’s trained in law as a character, you think, ‘Oh, wow, yeah.’ For her to then say guilty to all three counts in the show, I think is her way, really, of admitting that she did wrong.”
Image by Netflix
Is Martha an antagonist in Baby Reindeer? Absolutely. But given how she’s written and performed, there’s no labeling her a straightforward villain, and that’s one of the show’s greatest assets, something Gunning is and should be extremely proud of.
“I think in another world, Martha could have been a villain.
I think she could have been received as a kind of heightened version of, almost like the comparisons to
Misery
, and I think that would have been a shame because I think she’s so much more complicated than that
. So the fact that people are coming over and saying they were moved by the show or torn at the end, or there wasn’t a black and white response to it, I think that shows that everyone involved — Richard, the team, Weronika, all the cast and crew — I think we’ve done the right job because it’s not clear-cut and people
are
moved by her. I suppose if I were to say good job, it would be to create a character that has got people feeling something and not just kind of reacting as if she was the bad guy. So, that’s something I’m very, very proud of.”
Looking for even more on Gunning’s experience bringing Martha to screen in Baby Reindeer? Be sure to check out our full Collider Ladies Night interview in the video at the top of this article, or you can listen to the conversation in podcast form below:
Baby Reindeer (2024)
In a dark and gripping narrative, a young man’s life spirals into chaos when an innocent encounter at his bar job leads to an obsessive stalking by an older woman. The film skillfully explores themes of privacy, obsession, and the boundaries of social interaction.
Cast Richard Gadd , Jessica Gunning , Danny Kirrane , Nava Mau
Seasons 1
Creator(s) Richard Gadd
Streaming Service(s) Netflix
Baby Reindeer is available to stream on Netflix now.
Watch on Netflix