Editor’s note: The below interview contains spoilers for Shōgun Episode 9.
The Big Picture
Mariko’s death is not only heartbreaking but also marks a significant blow to the story on FX’s
Shōgun
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According to actress Anna Sawai, Mariko’s rebellion scene was liberating for her since it revealed a different side of her character.
The final scene of Mariko’s story was technically challenging to film but necessary for the emotional impact.
If there’s anything to take away from watching FX’s epic historical drama Shōgun, it’s that this show has absolutely no qualms whatsoever about breaking our hearts. The losses have been stacking up on this series week after week, ranging from the viscerally gory in Episode 4 (thanks to that cannon chain shot) to the emotionally devastating in Episode 8 (with the ritual of seppuku later being revealed as part of a greater strategy). Yet no demise has been quite as heartbreaking, or as poignant, as that of Lady Toda Mariko (Anna Sawai) in the series’ penultimate installment, “Chapter Nine: Crimson Sky.”
This death marks a huge blow to the series, not just because of the complicated, star-crossed romance the translator had shared with pilot-turned-hatamoto John Blackthorne (Cosmo Jarvis) but also because of the evolving notion that Shōgun may have just been Mariko’s story all along. On the heels of Episode 9’s streaming release, and hours before “Crimson Sky” premiered on FX, Collider had the opportunity to catch up with Sawai for a conversation about this critical, emotional, and ultimately explosive installment of the series. Over the course of the interview, which you can read below, the actress behind Mariko discusses which scene she considered “liberating” to film, her favorite line in the entire series, why the episode’s final minutes were more technical than viewers might expect, how her perspective on her character has changed since filming, and more.
Shogun (2024)
When a mysterious European ship is found marooned in a nearby fishing village, Lord Yoshii Toranaga discovers secrets that could tip the scales of power and devastate his enemies.
Release Date 2024-02-00
Main Genre Drama
Seasons 1
COLLIDER: How early did you start preparing yourself for this episode — mentally, emotionally — with the knowledge of how heavy this is, and how much of it rests on Mariko’s shoulders?
ANNA SAWAI: Because I already knew her story arc and where we were going, there was a part of me that was getting ready slowly as we were shooting Episodes 1 and 2 — but I’ll be honest, because we were so busy shooting everything, I don’t know if at one point I was like, “Okay, now’s the time that I prepare myself mentally.” It was more happening in the moment. Shooting all the episodes chronologically, living in the character for eight episodes before the final ninth episode for Mariko, really did build me up for it.
Did you come into this project with an understanding of who you felt Mariko was, and then that changed in some way after playing her? Do you have a different mindset when you think about her now versus where you started?
SAWAI: You’re asking very, very good questions. [Laughs] I was preparing myself enough to play her, but it was very subjective. Now, I’m viewing her objectively as well. Also, hearing what other people have to say, [in] certain scenes, I was justifying why Mariko would say certain lines that the viewers think that she’s being very cold about. Now that I do know that a lot of people think that it’s cold, I understand where they’re coming from, but I was only seeing it from her point of view to play the character. So in that sense, I do have a different view now.
Anna Sawai Found ‘Shōgun’ Episode 9 “Liberating”
Image via FX
Your first big scene in this episode happens when everyone sort of descends on Osaka and then Mariko has her audience with Ishido — in front of everyone, essentially. How many days was that to film?
SAWAI: I believe it was only one day. I don’t think they spent too many days trying to figure that out. I’m sure that the planning was much, much longer, but we did it in a day. I like that scene because we get to see her in a very, very different light. She’s allowed to say all this stuff. She’s allowed to rebel against what’s happening, and that’s the first time we see her vocalizing it and giving the attitude that she had to keep concealed. So it wasn’t too tough — more liberating.
Mariko’s rebellion manifests in a more physical sense later on, when the group tries to leave. From her perspective, she’s following orders, but there’s this tense standoff. We don’t know who’s going to make it out of this moment alive. Does Mariko go into it anticipating defeat, or is she just trying to push this boundary as far as she can?
SAWAI: I played it that she was going to go far. She knew that whatever it was going to take, even if it meant all the men on her side dying, she had to make a statement. “You’re not letting me leave, and that means that you’re keeping me hostage. And if you’re not allowing me to leave this castle, then I will accept it.” She calculated everything in her mind, so it’s not surprising to her, but she also knows that she’s not dying. It’s just sending out a message.
Everything that she does feel emotionally when she’s on the ground, that’s shame. That’s embarrassment. She comes from a family where she’s been treated with respect. There’s everything about her father, but she’s not a servant — and it is an embarrassment for her to also not be able to serve her lord. So we see her going through that, but it’s all part of the plan. She’s aware that this is about to happen when she’s approaching the gates.
Anna Sawai Shares Her Favorite Line From ‘Shōgun’
Image via FX
Mariko’s conversation with Ochiba feels like this long-awaited opportunity for both of them to say so many things to each other, and yet it has to happen in front of Blackthorne. What’s Mariko’s biggest takeaway from meeting with someone who she initially grew up with that has now changed?
SAWAI: I think she misses her old friend. That’s how I felt when I was looking into Fumi [Nikaido]’s eyes. It really feels like the world has pulled them apart, and it’s not her fault. So, in a way, she feels sorry. She also wishes her friend would understand, but she understands that her friend is also trying to protect her. Ochiba doesn’t want her to die. It’s a very bittersweet connection that they share. My favorite line out of the whole series is, “Flowers are only flowers because they fall.” I loved shooting that scene. I don’t think it’s anything like, “Oh, how dare you. You don’t understand.” It’s more like, “I feel sorry that society has made us into the people that we are now.”
Mariko can’t fulfill her duty to Toranaga, so she decides to commit seppuku. Is she resolved to see it through, or does she sense there’s a possibility that this is going to be stopped? Ishido coming in with that permit feels like a stay of execution, but at that moment, is she prepared to continue?
SAWAI: Oh, absolutely. I went in feeling like this was going to be her last breath, and then, seeing her son in the corner, having to show him the moment that she’s going to die, it all felt very emotional and real. There wasn’t an inch of me playing it like, “Oh, but she might actually live.”
Anna Sawai Explains Mariko and Blackthorne’s Love Scene in ‘Shōgun’ Episode 9
Image via FX
Later on, Mariko and Blackthorne spend the night together. What’s going through their heads at that moment, in terms of why they reach for each other after that scene?
SAWAI: It’s the biggest gesture when he comes forward to second her, because it was someone else’s role to fulfill, and he didn’t show up, and [Blackthorne] is a Protestant. He is saving Mariko from grave sin, and he’s putting himself in that position of, “I am going to go against my religion, and I’m going to kill the person that I love. I’m going to second the person that I love so that she can die in peace.” It’s a very big act of respect and love, and that’s the reason why she’s like, “You know what? Forget everything, all the tension that we’ve been through. This is a moment to celebrate, and I appreciate you, and we shall just be truthful to our feelings.”
It’s an interesting parallel to the first night that they spend together, which is played off as more of an unspoken secret with the “courtesan.” It almost feels like this is the moment that they’re fully accepting that this is who they are to each other. Is that how you and Cosmo [Jarvis] decided to play it? Even though they don’t know it’s going to be their last night together, it almost does have a finality to it.
SAWAI: I don’t know how Cosmo was approaching it, but it definitely did feel like this was going to be… She’s not thinking, “Oh, I’m going to divorce my husband and get together with Blackthorne. It’s more like, “We deserve this moment, and it might be a one-time thing, but we’re allowing ourselves to just have it.”
Mariko’s Final Scene in ‘Shōgun’ Was More Technical Than You Think
Image via FX
Even if you know what happens in the Clavell novel, you’re not really prepared for what comes next. There’s this permeating sense of disbelief, but also the knowledge that this is what Mariko’s story has been building to. What was the mood like on set for that scene? Was it the last scene that you filmed for the show, since it was a chronological shoot?
SAWAI: Yes, it was the last scene that I shot, but also, so much went into it technically. We had to do it in four different shots. One was going through the samurai and then entering the room, and then there was one where Mariko was just standing in front of the door, and they were using a Phantom slow-motion camera. One was a close-up of my line, and then one was with the whole cast. There was a lot to do, and it’s also a very, very short moment. It’s a split-second decision that she makes, and so there wasn’t enough time to be like, “Oh my God, so much is happening, and do I do this or not?” It was very, very real in that sense, same as how the viewers view it. It’s like, “No,” and then it happens.
Is there anything that you’ve taken away from making this show in terms of how it changed you, or was it nice to slip back into Anna again?
SAWAI: Yeah, I was very happy to take [the costume] off at the end of the day because it’s not the most comfortable attire, but it’s like a suit. When you wear a suit, it’s hard to slouch. Sometimes it’s a little tight around your arms, and it’s very tight around your waist. Your posture changes. I remember people seeing me out of the kimono and being like, “Wait, you’re actually tiny,” because they would wrap so much around my body. I remember some of the ADs joking because I worked with them again afterward on a more modern show. They were like, “Oh, you’re so quick to come to set.” It was because they were used to me just walking in tiny steps to set every time they would call me.
There was a lot of adjustment, but I really liked it. Now I know how I should be acting, how I should be carrying myself in a kimono. It also changes the way I take bites when I’m eating Japanese food, just a little. I’ve learned so much.
New episodes of Shōgun premiere each Tuesday on FX and Hulu in the U.S.
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